Garrocha Training - Help needed!

[Jane Holm]

I wondered whether Peter would be kind enough to share some of his knowledge to help us people in far lands to get to grips with what is required, and how best to get yourself and your horse going with the garrocha.

My only resources to date have been Peter's book, the odd video on Youtube, a DVD on training Garrocha [all in German!] and 2 books on Doma Vaquera that I've borrowed which are also in German and Spanish. Now I did learn a wee bit of written German at school some 40+ years ago, and am trying to learn Spanish but my working knowledge of the spoken word is rather lacking so I'm having to guess a bit!

To date I have got the horses used to the garrocha waved about all over them, and dragged in front or behind or besides depending on whether we are going backwards or forwards or sideways. Most of our work has been in walk so far as Merlin is still developing in the canter department, I can do spins under it both ways from front or back although having the odd moment with my ham fists, so some help in what to do with my right hand position for turns would be great!

Also for the canter work, at what stage would you introduce canter around the garrocha? He is now starting to do simple changes, and can strike off from halt or walk, mostly gets the correct lead, and we are getting better at canter to walk and have had some canter to halts as well [I close the door a bit too much sometimes and he sits and halts!] 

His circles are becoming better and he is able to cope with a figure 8 across the 20m width of the arena, going to walk on the diagonals and changing the leads [ie 2 x 10m dia or smaller circles]. I've been doing a lot of walk pirouettes and then cantering out of them on the last step in preparation for the canter pirouettes but am taking this quite slowly as he can be a big bumbly baby still at times so I want him to be balanced and happy with this work. He is not finding it at all hard now so I'm hopeful that we can progress it a bit more soon.

I can do those vertical overhand spins beside the horse at walk and probably in a slow canter too but haven't tried that yet on Merlin... as I have been dealing with my own injury issues first. Charging with it held under my arm like a lance at a gallop is *no* problem at all.  I have done many hours of that sort of thing with and without armour.

I think we are now ready to do more but I need a bit of help from the expert.

So - HELP?! Pretty please, Peter?! 

btw - I have found a light cheap 4m long aluminium pole which I *can* fit him under! He is just on 17hh and I have not been able to get anything in wood over 3.8m in length which is very disappointing. Might try pultruded fibreglass if I can find something light enough that doesn't bend and it doesn't cost a fortune. The plastic steampipe tubing I started with was too bendy for my liking, and I really wanted wood or something that didn't bend so much hence the ali tube. I plugged the ends with pieces of dowel so that it is solid on the ends, and it seems to work quite nicely at the moment, but I still prefer wood.... 

[Peter Maddison-Greenwell]

hi,

Star firing questions in a logical order as problems arise and I will do my best to start you of.

Go to my ALL NEW website.... There is a short video of me on Saeta doing Garrocha see if that helps.

Get a 14 foot long bannister rail made of pine from the DIY store. Smile a some nice bloke or woman for that matters who owns a electric plane
(for woodwork - NOt flying!) who knows how to use it.  Then let me know and I will send some dimensions.

All the best Peter

[Jane Holm]

Many many many thanks Peter! 

aaah! a bannister rail...! Never thought of that one.
I had tried to get some rounds in pine long enough but all they seem to stock are 3m or 3.5m lengths which aren't much good. Also tried other exotics such as cedar and even rattan, and was about to talk to the people who make our lance tip material about some round balsa.

I sense there may be some "adventures in woodwork" to come.... 

1) What should my hand position for spins be like? I am rather ham fisted at the moment [!!] and I am having problems co-ordinating my right hand while the horse does the pirouette around the pole mainly its the head first one that seems to be the problem. I have to keep letting it go and I'm sure that can't be right.

[St Piran's - Rachel]

I am rather ham fisted at the moment

I know that feeling with the garrocha 

[Peter Maddison-Greenwell]

Hi Jane,

You asked:

1) What should my hand position for spins be like? I am rather ham fisted at the moment [!!] and I am having problems co-ordinating my right hand while the horse does the pirouette around the pole mainly its the head first one that seems to be the problem. I have to keep letting it go and I'm sure that can't be right.

My Answer:

I think you mean a Pirouette UNDER the pole. Around the pole suggests that the pole is at a step angle behind you and the "pirouette becomes more of a working pirouette works around the pole the end of which remains on the ground.

If you start on a small circle around the Garrocha, with the pole in the right hand (of course - never the left!). The pointy end on the floor and
staying on THE SPOT the other end in your hand held as if lifting a weight with the fingers and thumb closed softly and relaxed around the pole
about 2 inches from the thick end. The pole is pointing down to the ground and is working as a compass. The point in the ground and you being the pencil that draws the circle.

Once you have established a circle so good that you do not need to move the hand in or out to compensate for the horse not working on the circle.

Then you can lift the hand in front of you whilst simultaneously turning the horse around the haunches. The hand stays in the same position on the pole but the arm rotates anti-clockwise as the horses head goes under the pole. Then the arm bends as the arm is behind you from there the arm position is dictated by "the laws of anatomy". You should end up with the hand back in front of you in the same position as the circle.

If you look on my website on the Lecture Demo page you will see Saeta pirouette at the canter. The hand position is the same!

My advise as always is you are well rehearsed in the walk pirouettes one handed first as the pole adds a further dimension and difficulty.

Hope that helps.
Regards Peter

[Jane Holm]

Many thanks Peter!

Yes I do mean "under" the pole  doh! too many bangs on the head means that this aged person sometimes speaks gibberish. 

I think I will do some off horse practice of the pole handling.  AND Merlin & I will also continue our one handed pirouette work without the pole as well, I am riding him in a Myler full cheek bit not a curb as he is still a youngster, so far this has given us the best results, he likes it and it is quite effective without being too much.

From what you've said it sounds like the fingers and thumb point down the pole rather than having the thumb at the top and fingers underneath like it would be when riding with the rein in your hand, I looked at your video and this is what it looked like to me.

So we are making a pirouette around the haunches to the right - my hand goes forward as the horse goes under the pole to the right and my wrist and arm turn over so my wrist is on top as the pole is now on the left of the horse, then my arm goes up over my head as he continues to turn and then we end up back where we came from with the pole on the right ... then its sort of the opposite for the left hand side pirouette?

I think I know what I was doing wrong, instead of the hand grip turned over with thumb at the bottom I had it the other way [like you do when riding] making it almost impossible to get my hand in the right place once we started rotating!

Should I be paying attention to the placement of the horse to the pole before trying to do the pirouettes?

ie should the horses shoulder line up with the tip on the ground or should it be more in the centre or more towards the back of the horse? Sorry for all these questions but as you know I like to be precise with what I'm trying to do - learning it correctly the first time saves a lot of time and anguish relearning how to do it properly later on!  This I know only too well from my martial arts. 

Do you have any suggestions about what to do about preparing him for this work at the canter or am I on the right track already?

He is generally a big softie to ride and tries quite hard to be very obedient "most" of the time, he is also very good with voice commands so I tend to use these a lot when teaching something new or if it turns to custard like it did at the display below where he got a fright on the tent side and took off across the arena heading straight for the audience after galloping right across the cricket pitch. I have since changed our display bit from the kk snaffle [which he totally ignored] to the Portuguese or Spanish curb which he listens to, so no more trashing of cricket pitches at displays from us!  It was very embarrassing!

[St Piran's - Rachel]

after galloping right across the cricket pitch

Apart from the fright, I would rate this as fantastic, I have always had the most incredible urge to gallop across golf course greens 

[Jane Holm]

after galloping right across the cricket pitch

Apart from the fright, I would rate this as fantastic, I have always had the most incredible urge to gallop across golf course greens 

LOL I wasn't worried about the cricket pitch at all - other than it being a paid display and not getting paid for it because of damage to said cricket pitch - what worried me was the lineup of strollers, prams, babies & small kiddies that were all standing behind the ropes watching us as we were headed straight towards them at warp speed!  I didn't want to see us in the headlines in the paper the next day for obliterating them all!

It took *all* my strength to turn him away from them, and a bit more to stop him. Not sure what gave him such a fright, he went so quick to get away so it was probably a tiger!

I have galloped over a golf course or 2 in my youth! It was fantastic fun except for being chased by a mob of angry golfers waving their clubs at me and shoulting...!   

[Peter Maddison-Greenwell]

HI JANE,

You asked:
ie should the horses shoulder line up with the tip on the ground or should it be more in the centre or more towards the back of the horse? Sorry for all these questions but as you know I like to be precise with what I'm trying to do - learning it correctly the first time saves a lot of time and anguish relearning how to do it properly later on!   This I know only too well from my martial arts. 

I appreciate what you are saying about getting it right first time. However, where 'dressage', 'garrocha' or any 'riding' differs from martial arts is that you have a partner who cannot read the book, see the DVD as you can. Also he will have to cope with his own body as well as yours AND any fears he MAY have re a wooden pole bouncing off his head and bum!

I have to say and Rachel will confirm this. I seem to get the horse working with the garrocha very quickly and calmly in fact we have picked uo the garrocha with "Fish" and "B" on day one and demo it on day two.

That says a lot about the temperament the training by the owners to date and I hope a little with the "garrochista" good judgement. All my horses perform garrocha because I hope they trust me.

Going back to getting it right first time! I feel being too "anal" about getting it right can get in the way. It is more about being able to quietly and calmly manage your horse one handed in the small circles and turn accurately. Once you can manage the horse naturally and without needing to think about it, the garrocha becomes an extension of your arm and is what you are thinking about not the horse.

As any person that has ridden for a living as "farm workers", "ranchers" etc. your horse is not what you think about it is the work!

For me it is the getting the horse relaxed and obedient and them add the garrocha and playing.

Kind regrards Peter

[Jane Holm]

Thanks Peter! [Wise words of wisdom.]

In other words I should JUST DO IT   

Merlin is not too bad with big sticks now, and he copes with all sorts of other stuff without a problem so I think its just more now me getting better at one handed work and handling the pole and him sharpening up on all his ridden work so it all comes together without having to think too much about what's happening.